EPISODE DESCRIPTION
Welcome to It's Gonna Be Fine, the podcast where we bring you the stories and trends you may have missed, and unpack what's really going on.
This week, we’re rethinking what it means to get older — and discovering why some of life’s biggest milestones, accomplishments, and personal breakthroughs are happening later than ever. From the shifting goalposts of middle age to the surprising case for being a late bloomer, we explore why there’s no single timeline for figuring out your life.
Plus, join Matti for a look at how music can transport us back to another time, the experiences that shape who we become, and why sometimes it takes decades of learning to finally feel ready for what comes next.
Referenced in this Episode
The Wall Street Journal - "Your 40s Used to Be Middle Age. Not Anymore."
The Atlantic - "When Middle Age Actually Starts"
The Atlantic - "You Might Be a Late Bloomer"
TRANSCRIPT
This week on It’s Gonna Be Fine: What if middle age isn’t the beginning of the end, but a chapter full of possibilities we never expected? Today, we’re looking at why the goalposts of aging are moving, why some of life’s biggest accomplishments happen later than you might think, and why you might have a lot more time to become the person you want to be than you realize. Here we go.
The Goalposts of Aging Are Moving
Hello, and welcome to the It’s Gonna Be Fine podcast. I’m Matti, and today we’re talking about aging and how it’s changed.
It’s October as I’m recording this episode and as it comes out, so we’ve said goodbye to summer. Although today happens to be quite a warm day, with temperatures getting into the 80s.
As I was preparing for this episode, I was remembering some things about summer, specifically here in Chicago, where I record the show. One of the cornerstones of summer is the music festival Lollapalooza. Lollapalooza always makes me think about my age because I have no interest in going, mostly because everyone is much, much younger than me. They’re all crowded into these spaces, it’s very hot, and it’s just not my thing.
However, as you know, I love music, and I do love certain music festivals and concerts. So I really enjoy seeing the clips and everything from Lollapalooza. Specifically, there’s one performer who made me scratch my head a little when I saw the clips.
Tate McRae is a wonderful artist. I’m a fan. I love her music. As a gay man, she’s probably one of the few women who could probably turn me. But I remember seeing clips from her performances and thinking, does Tate McRae belong at Lollapalooza, at a music festival like that?
When I think of music festivals, I think they’re grittier, right? A little more earthy, potentially with alternative music. Not necessarily the big stars. When I think of Tate McRae, I think she belongs in a stadium, like Katy Perry or some of those other pop icons.
I was loving it, of course. The choreography, the music. Like I said, she’s gorgeous. But I wondered whether I was just out of touch and too old to appreciate what music festivals are now. Do I need to rethink that, open my mind a little, and stop being so black-and-white about it? You belong at a music festival, you belong in a stadium, you belong in a dive bar, whatever.
You could argue that I am out of touch, that I’m just too old for this and don’t understand. You might be right. However, society is actually telling a somewhat different story when it comes to aging. The goalposts of middle age are moving, and age may really just be a number. That’s what we’re going to explore today.
Your 40s: From Middle Age to Prime Time
Let’s start with an article from The Wall Street Journal titled “Your 40s Used to Be Middle Age, Not Anymore.” This piece reframed your 40s, moving away from the idea of middle age and toward what they called “prime time”: a surprisingly dynamic period of life.
I saw this and thought, awesome, because that’s me right now, getting into that age group.
The article discussed how traditional life milestones, like having kids, building a career, and owning a home, are all getting pushed later and later for a number of reasons: economic, societal, and even personal. Everything costs more, of course. Also, not to mention that everyone looks younger these days. Look at a 40-year-old in 1980 compared with a 40-year-old today. The difference is striking.
So I wondered: Do looking younger maybe make us feel and act younger, too? What was historically considered middle age just doesn’t feel that way anymore because we don’t feel that age.
I also recently started watching a TV show called Youth on HBO Max. I’ve gotten through two episodes, and I’m not sure if I’m going to continue. But that’s beside the point. It’s about a woman who’s 60 years old. She finds herself at a turning point in life and wants to recapture some of her youth and make the most of the time she has left.
The thing that struck me most was that this woman is supposed to be 60 years old. I’m not sure how old the actress is, but the character is supposed to be 60. She looks 40. She looks so young. She doesn’t look like the 60-year-olds of many years ago.
I think the message we’re getting from culture and media is that just because you’re older in years doesn’t mean you have to look or act that way.
And there’s data behind why what used to be called middle age is now more like what The Wall Street Journal called prime time.
Let’s look at homeownership. In 2025, according to the National Association of Realtors, the median age of a first-time homebuyer reached 40. By the way, that totally tracks, because guess who bought his first home last year at the age of 40? Yours truly. Living proof that this is real data!
Then there are women aged 40 and over. The CDC analyzed births from 1990 to 2023 and found that births to women aged 40 or older increased by 193% during that period.
Looking at education, the National Center for Education Statistics reported that, in 2021, the 40-plus demographic accounted for more than 600,000 graduate students, or 20% of that student population.
And then there’s life expectancy. According to the CDC, a woman’s life expectancy in 2024 was 81.4 years. So if you’re in your 40s today, you have a pretty solid chance of living well into your 80s and, as life expectancy continues to rise, maybe even into your 90s. Think about the speed of medical advancements. Potential AI apocalypse aside, there’s a good chance we’re going to live longer and longer.
If you’re sitting here at 40 thinking, “God, I still have half my life left,” there’s so much you can do. The article talks about that, too. People in their 40s today are running marathons, dating, changing careers, becoming entrepreneurs, and starting new businesses.
Hello, look at me! I started this podcast at age 40, not 25, even though maybe I wanted to at 25.
What we’re finding is that you can still accomplish amazing things, even if you’re not 25 anymore.
Age and Celebrity Culture
Let’s look at celebrity culture, too. Historically, I think people were very focused on young celebrities. As someone aged, people became less interested. But consider a few examples.
Kim Kardashian’s love life is all the rage. She’s, I think, around 45, in her mid-40s. Venus and Serena Williams have played tennis into their 40s, and they’re still amazing players. People continue to follow them and are huge fans.
Then there’s Alex Cooper, the host of Call Her Daddy, a fellow podcaster. Hey, Alex!
On one of her episodes this year, she was discussing something—I can’t remember exactly what it was. I think it was about friendships in your 30s. She’s in her early 30s, so that’s her decade. But when she was talking about it, I noticed, given my age, that she made sure to include people in their 40s. She said something along the lines of, “Your friends in their 30s and 40s.”
Her husband is also in his 40s, I believe. He’s about 10 years older than her, so that’s his decade.
There’s more acknowledgment that being in your 40s, and maybe even older, doesn’t mean you’re on the decline. You’re still part of the conversation.
By the way, speaking of Alex Cooper, I don’t know if you listen to her, too, but she dropped an episode on Sunday about trust. As did I. So we’re just on the same wavelength. Alex, hi! I’m willing to chat whenever you would like.
Why Getting Older Can Mean Getting Healthier
Let me get extra personal for a second, if you’ll indulge me. There’s another thing that supports this idea that as you get older, it’s actually your time to thrive, not necessarily your time to decline.
I’ve spent a number of years working on dealing with past trauma, forgiveness, and many of the issues people face when they’re young, as they adjust to new milestones and the struggles that come with them. I had a hard time as a kid and as a young adult adjusting to life and relationships. There was a lot of pain.
I’ve spent the last few years really trying to address that through therapy and other things. Recent life events and world events have forced me, and made me want, to face that music and deal with these things.
I’m happy to say that I’ve really put in the effort. It’s never-ending, of course. There’s no moment when we can say, “We’re done. Everything’s fine.”
But finally, in this so-called middle age, at 40 or 41, in my early 40s, I’m actually in the healthiest place I’ve been in a very, very long time. I have healthier relationships with my immediate family, my extended family, and other people in my life. And it feels really, really amazing.
Having that newer foundation, and getting past a lot of those issues that have been around for so long, has allowed me to do things like buy a home and start this podcast. I’ve been freed up from some of the mental anguish that weighed on me for so long.
We can’t expect people, especially younger people, to know how to deal with all of those things. It takes time. For me, specifically, it took years and years. I think it takes years and years for a lot of people. And, like I said, it’s never-ending.
So if we say that by the time you reach middle age, it’s over, then what does that mean? That can’t be the case, because now, at least for me, I’m in the best place possible to achieve what I want to achieve and do what I want to do.
That’s something the article didn’t mention, but I think it also helps explain why this period of life could be considered prime time.
When Does Middle Age Actually Start?
There was another piece, this one from The Atlantic, titled “When Middle Age Actually Starts.” The writer seemed to be trying to figure out what middle age actually is. Is it a number? Is it 40? Is it 50? Is it 60?
What they found is that the number just keeps moving. As people age, their own perception of when middle age begins gets pushed further out. I found that funny because I guess none of us really wants to admit we’re there, that we’re in middle age.
When you’re 20 or 25, you’re thinking, yeah, 40 or 45, that’s middle age. Then when you’re 40 or 45, you’re thinking, maybe it’s 60. I can’t tell you what people in their 60s think. If you’re in your 60s and listening, let me know what you think about middle age!
One time, I heard a definition of middle age that I kind of like: It’s the age at which, if you multiplied it by two and died at that age, it wouldn’t be considered tragic.
So if you’re 40 and you multiply that by two, you get 80. Is it a tragedy to die at 80? If yes, then 40 isn’t middle age, because dying at 80 would be too young. If it’s not a tragedy to die at 80, then 40 is middle age.
As the article suggests, that number is probably different for everybody. I don’t know. Eighty doesn’t seem like a tragedy to me. That seems like a pretty long life. But 10 years from now, maybe it will feel different. Who knows?
Again, the goalposts keep moving.
The writer, Julie Beck, landed somewhere really refreshing, at least I found it refreshing. She discussed how middle age might simply be a feeling that creeps up on you rather than an exact number. And it can be a time that’s both exhausting and fulfilling because you’ve lived enough life to know things and to have learned lessons.
You might be tired. You’ve gone through a lot. But you also have a lot of time ahead of you to make changes and do things. Just because you’re in middle age doesn’t mean you have to stop.
No matter what that age is for you, or when that feeling shows up, whether at 40, 50, or 60, as Beck says, what actually matters is what you do with it when it arrives.
When you get that feeling and think, “Maybe I am in middle age,” are you going to say, “Okay, it’s all downhill from here”? Or are you going to say, “You know what? Let’s keep pushing those goalposts”?
I really love that.
And, speaking personally, based on that definition, I am not at middle age yet. For me, that feeling hasn’t crept up. I can still think of myself as a young person. I still get surprised when I’m the oldest person in the room or in a meeting. When I learn someone’s age and discover how much younger they are than me, I’m like, “What? I thought maybe we were the same age!”
Some of the things I’m starting now, and things I’ve been working on for a while, have helped me feel that way. Thankfully, that feeling hasn’t happened for me. And even if it has happened, or does happen, for you, it doesn’t have to mean decline.
Are You a Late Bloomer?
There was another incredible piece from The Atlantic that I utterly enjoyed reading. I highly recommend it if you’re thinking about things you want to accomplish, trying to make a transition, or simply don’t want to feel as though you’ve outgrown or passed the point of what you’re able to accomplish.
It was written by David Brooks and titled “You Might Be a Late Bloomer.”
The article discussed how success can look different for everyone. The previous article focused more on how middle age can feel different for everyone; this one focused on success.
Some people develop their skills and qualities later than others. You can’t expect to learn everything in your 20s. Life is just beginning then. If you’re learning and developing skills in your 30s and 40s, why not use them in your 40s, 50s, and 60s?
The article made a number of really interesting points that I want to highlight.
First, for some reason, we’ve built a culture in which success needs to happen when we’re young. According to Brooks, our society favors what are called “early bloomers.” We’re always celebrating people who’ve achieved things early.
I just saw an article about somebody at Meta who’s, like, 21 years old, or maybe even younger, and is leading or playing a big role in some of the company’s AI initiatives. The reaction is, “Wow, look how young he is!” Then there are the 30 Under 30 lists.
All of these things reinforce the idea that accomplishing something earlier makes it more impressive. Maybe it does. But just because it’s impressive doesn’t mean older people can’t do it very well, too.
There’s actually data that contradicts the idea that youth is the peak of human achievement.
The author cites research showing that Nobel Prize winners, on average, made their crucial discoveries at age 44. They didn’t necessarily win the prize at 44; that’s when they made their discoveries, on average.
The average age of a U.S. patent applicant? Forty-seven.
A 45-year-old is reportedly twice as likely to produce a scientific breakthrough as a 25-year-old. The average age of an entrepreneur is 45, and the probability of startup success continues increasing into people’s 50s. One study even found that the fastest-growing startups were founded by people whose average age was 45. Another analysis put the peak age for innovation in the late 40s.
So middle age isn’t necessarily when your abilities begin declining. For some kinds of achievements, including really big ones, it might actually be the decade when all the knowledge and skills you’ve accumulated finally start paying dividends.
And, as the first article pointed out, you may have more time left to do these things, especially as people have children later in life.
Maybe you’re in middle age and you’re still single. Or maybe you’re not single, but you don’t have the responsibilities people your age had in previous generations. You might have more time to pursue some of these things, too.
Late Bloomers Aren’t Failed Early Bloomers
Another point the article discussed is that being a late bloomer doesn’t mean you failed earlier. You’re not a failed early bloomer. What it can mean is that you’ve simply taken an unconventional path.
Over time, you’ve developed abilities that may not have been rewarded along the way, but you’ve fulfilled your potential in other ways. You’re not late. You didn’t fail. You’re just on a different timeline.
Some people improve and become better because they spend the first 15 or 20 years experimenting. These so-called late bloomers don’t burst onto the scene as young geniuses. They spend years, even decades, trying things, failing, learning, changing course, and collecting knowledge that eventually allows them to become successful.
Their lives have been a period of trial and error, repetition, and curiosity. That’s why their work peaks later and why they might be noticed later: They’ve accumulated all these experiences.
Think of people like Alfred Hitchcock and Charles Darwin. They weren’t necessarily young geniuses who came out of nowhere in their 20s.
Some people don’t peak because they’re young and brilliant. They peak because they’ve had enough life experience to become brilliant. It simply took time to become really good at what they do.
External Rewards Versus Genuine Curiosity
Finally, there’s something about motivation that can help explain some of this.
Brooks differentiates between people who are motivated by external rewards—grades, titles, money, approval—and people who are motivated by curiosity, autonomy, and genuine interest.
People motivated by external rewards can do quite well when they’re young because those rewards are guiding them. They’re trying to play the game of moving up at work as quickly as possible, making as much money as they can, and making decisions that help them achieve those things.
And that’s fine! For some people, that’s their goal. That’s what they want, and that’s great.
But other people are motivated by curiosity, interest, trying new things, and learning. That takes time because the learning itself is the reward. Decade after decade, they’re pursuing the things they’re curious about and the things they want to learn.
You could probably do both. I think there are people who have a career and are really motivated to grow quickly in it, while other parts of their lives are driven by curiosity. Maybe they’re figuring out a side hustle or a hobby. Perhaps they become really successful in their career early, and then 20 years from now, they become well-known for that hobby or side project.
Who knows? Both can be true.
It’s interesting to differentiate between these motivations. One isn’t better than the other, and the distinction could help explain why some people are later bloomers than others.
So, back to this idea that middle age and getting older are when things start to decline. Maybe we can reframe that. Aging isn’t necessarily about losing things. It can also be about focusing on yourself, caring less about what other people think, and letting go of the things you used to feel you had to prove.
You can allow yourself to be successful in different, perhaps even more meaningful, ways. It’s about the internal reward you’re giving yourself rather than constantly trying to achieve external rewards.
Of course, it’s important to point out that just because these articles make this argument doesn’t mean society has caught up. Ageism is still a problem, especially when it comes to people looking for jobs. Those issues absolutely still exist.
So this isn’t about saying everything’s great and you can do anything you want when you’re older. There are challenges, and there are things we have to improve. But hopefully, some of this gives you a little hope and perspective that maybe the tides are changing and those goalposts are moving.
And if a company isn’t going to allow you to pursue your dreams, maybe there are ways you can pursue them yourself.
The Songs That Define Our Lives
All right. I don’t know about you, but I’m feeling all the feels after some of these inspirational articles that seem to resonate a lot with me personally. I hope they resonated with you, too.
Speaking of getting older and time passing, one thing that has always helped me define different periods of my life is music.
Music has this way of taking you back to an exact moment, an exact feeling. It can bring back the exact physical and emotional state you were in when you hear a song or a tune. It takes you right back there.
And while going back to a particular time can sometimes be painful, especially if you heard a song when things weren’t going so well, being transported through music is still one of the greatest joys I find in life. I love being taken back through a song or being transported somewhere else through music.
In the spirit of this episode about time passing, aging, and still accomplishing things, I thought it would be fun to share some songs from my own life that simply mean the world to me. These are songs that came into my life at particular times and still bring up something special when I hear them today.
God, I’m being really vulnerable with you all today!
Of course, I want to hear your songs, too. You can comment on social media or message me. The Instagram DMs are open, the emails are open. The email is hello@itsgonnabefine.fm.
I’m going to give you three songs that are near the top of my list. There are many, many more, including songs that might not take me back to a specific time but simply resonate with me today. We don’t have all day, and you guys have things to do. I can’t keep you forever! So I’m just going to share three songs that really define certain periods of my life.
“Ants Marching” — Dave Matthews Band
The first is a Dave Matthews Band song called “Ants Marching,” which, of course, is very popular.
That song was one of the first I discovered when I started getting into music. Something about the rhythm, the beat, and the energy it gave me was eye-opening. I hadn’t really explored music before, so for one of the first songs I came across to have that effect on me was a big deal.
I think about when I went to college for the first time. It was the first time I was around people who weren’t part of my little bubble of growing up, but came from all walks of life. You’re just like, wow, this is amazing! Look how big the world is, and look at the endless possibilities of people you can meet, get to know, and have experiences with.
Discovering that song was a similar experience. I thought, wow, this is different from what I’ve heard before. It really got me interested in pursuing more music, listening to more things, and discovering what I liked.
So that’s definitely a favorite.
“Ironic” and “You Oughta Know” — Alanis Morissette
The second one resonates with a lot of people. There are a couple of Alanis Morissette songs I could choose. Actually, maybe I should choose both.
I was going to go with “Ironic.” That song was a feel-good song for me when I wasn’t feeling good. When I was struggling with teenage angst, or whatever else I was going through, finding new identities and figuring out who I was, “Ironic” offered some comfort.
Of course, the song discusses all the things that can go wrong. They’re not actually ironic, but they’re things that are perhaps out of our control. The tune, the melody, and the lyrics all worked really well together and really struck me.
But I would also say “You Oughta Know” is right up there, too, from the same album. That song allowed me to really tap into my anger. While “Ironic” might have helped me feel better, “You Oughta Know” amplified what I was feeling.
I think I even remember walking to a therapy appointment when I was young, maybe 19 or 20, and listening to it on the way. I was like, yes, this is going to be a good session because I am riled up!
“Take Me Away” — Lifehouse
The third song might be a little out of left field, but there’s a very specific reason for choosing it. This goes back to what I was saying about music bringing us to a very specific moment.
I don’t know if there are any Lifehouse fans out there. I think the band broke up, although the lead singer still does things under the Lifehouse name. It’s more like him on his own. But 20 years ago, they were alive and well, and they had a lot of great songs.
The one that jumps out to me is “Take Me Away.”
I vividly remember that I took a year off between high school and college because I just couldn’t deal with life at that point. I was working, and all my friends were in college, so I didn’t have many friends at the time. Really, I didn’t have any friends.
I would go to my job, and luckily, I had some coworkers I considered friends. Some of them became really good friends, but I didn’t have a lot going on.
I remember one particularly freezing cold day in Chicago. I was sitting on the bus, probably with some hot chocolate, and it was this really cozy feeling. It was cold outside, early in the morning, and I was on the bus, sipping my hot chocolate and listening to music on what was probably a CD player with headphones. Kind of like a Walkman, but with a CD player, because it was that time period. I think iPods were maybe just coming out.
“Take Me Away” was playing, and every time I hear it, I’m brought back to that cozy, warm, hot-chocolate-filled bus ride. It takes me back to my first real foray into adulthood.
That period wasn’t always easy. There was a lot of pain. But this particular song gives me joy, comfort, and nostalgia.
I want to play you the part of the song that really does it for me every time. It’s that first drop, from how the song starts to where it’s going. I can’t describe the feeling I get every time I hear it.
Okay, so this is the beginning. This is how the song starts. Bear with me.
Here it comes. We’re gonna drop.
Yes!
It never gets old.
Aging Doesn’t Have to Mean Decline
Okay, well, this was a fun one, at least for me!
But let’s return to the main topic at hand: aging, modern aging, middle age, and accomplishments.
Based on this episode, maybe we’ve just misunderstood what aging is. Some of us might still be carrying around this old life script: First, you’re young. Then you have opportunities, and those opportunities lead to achievements. Then you’re in middle age, things start to decline, and eventually you’re in old age. We know what happens after that.
However, modern life increasingly looks more like this: You’re young, you start to explore, you learn, you reinvent yourself, you master something, and you continue to grow. There’s more learning, more mastery, a pivot, and more growth. The cycle continues.
Maybe you reinvent yourself again. Maybe you keep pushing forward with what you’ve been focused on until that thing finally takes off.
You can let a number dictate what you do, or you can say, “You know what? I’m just going to keep going and see what happens.”
Importantly, this doesn’t mean pretending that aging has no downsides. It certainly does. My knee hurts, by the way!
Our bodies change, and our abilities decline. This week in particular, I had so many brain farts that I’m this close to talking to my doctor about it.
Instead of mailing my mail-in ballot, I dropped it in the recycling bin. Then, when I went to retrieve it from the recycling bin, I decided to recycle my car keys. I had to retrieve those, too. Then I went upstairs to my house and realized I’d forgotten my phone. It was a mess!
So, yes, growing older has its issues. However, getting older and declining don’t have to be the same thing.
You can become more confident at 45. You can become emotionally secure at 50 if you’ve spent many decades trying to get there. You can’t expect that you’ll necessarily be emotionally secure at 30, 35, or even 40.
You could be more successful at 55 if you’re someone who comes up with an amazing idea at 40, 44, or 45, and that idea becomes something significant 10 years later.
You absolutely can become more creative at 60. Maybe you tap into an artistic side you’ve always had but never pursued because you were working in sales.
You could even become closer to your family at 65. You can feel more like yourself than you ever have before, at any age, even 70.
Maybe middle age isn’t the beginning of the end. Maybe, for a lot of us, it’s when the things we’ve been learning our entire lives finally start to materialize.
And if we can look at it that way, it’s for sure gonna be fine.
We’ll see you next time!
This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.
